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Still The Oldie Posted 16 years ago
We have few rules in this group, and even fewer things for which we prescribe any code of behaviour. This is both a hallmark and a strength.

We are (largely) self-policing, and over time our collective inclinations have formed our procedures and approach to judging submissions and how we articulate that.

Mostly it works as intended. Mostly there is fair and equitable comment, with members giving about as much as they receive.

But whenever there is cause to reflect on how WEEKLY works, and on what its priorities are or should be, and on the balance of importance between voting and commenting, we tend to spend most of our time debating the criteria for keeping or rejecting a shot, and whether or not we are applying suitable rigour to the process.

I think we've recently covered that well, and have concluded that it will eventually be an application of personal standards, hopefully applied fairly.

The real topic we need to address, in my view as long-in-tooth member and as admin, is the nature, quality, equitability, constructiveness, thoughtfulness, and tenor of comments that we make on submissions.

My well-known bias is that this matters more than the consequent votes, and that the outcome of commenting (improved work by all) is more important than the pool we eventually amass.

I do not propose that we ever establish a regulated coda for commenting - no checklist to be followed or enforced. Nor would I ever attempt to remove important subjectivity from the process. We ain't about mathematics.

But I have for a while been concerned about a few specific issues on the commenting front that I would like to raise, together with some suggestions for addressing them.

They are (in no particular order):

1. A tendency to avoid commenting on images we instinctively don't like for reasons of stylistic/genre bias

2. A similar tendency to avoid images we believe to be awful but about which we are afraid to be seen as cruel

3. A tendency to 'pile on' keeper or free flight votes onto a shot where the view is unanimous (or nearly so) with an "Enough said" or "It's all been said" comment

4. Critical comments about an image that don't include any constructive advice, or tips for improvement, or references on different technique or better examples

5. A tendency to exchange comments and votes with a narrow cadre, rather than broadly across the membership (recognizing that this needs to be a two-way street)

6. A tendency to be influenced by another member's body of work when judging a given photo

The following is NOT a proposed set of procedures - it's not even meant to be guidelines (we are too adult to need that). It's just how I personally think these issues can be addressed, recognizing that not all of you will share my view that they are issues to begin with (discuss amongst yourselves).

First, I believe we should approach every assessment with the belief that the member who submitted the shot in question should end up feeling good that they did, based on the comments the shot receives. Keeper or free flight.

Second, I'd suggest we think in terms of fewer but more detailed and analytical comments from each of us rather than more numerous but less detailed ones (not wishing to add to the time burden of participating in WEEKLY).

Third, I'd love to see more specific suggestions, or tailored technical tips, or outside references, to add to the learning potential from our comments.

Fourth, I'd love it if we were more random, rather than targeted, in choosing the shots we comment on.

Lastly, I'd prefer if whinges, animosity, and inevitable personality issues were all kept 'offline' rather than posted in threads - and feel free to refer angst-making issues to me for Solomon-like judgments. Happy to help.

Here endeth the lesson...
Rob Scumaci Posted 16 years ago Edited by Rob Scumaci (member) 16 years ago
I plead the 5th Amendment Right to Remain Silent on Offenses 1,2,3 and 6!

Keeper
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notime4jibbajabba Posted 16 years ago
For randomness, why not suggest (not require, of course) that everyone comments on at least the 5 photos that come above theirs in the week's submissions. The last 5 people to submit in a given week would circle around back to the images that were added first. That way it changes every week.

I'll pave the way and start doing that as of this week, in addition to the 10 I have so far commented on.
pricey paper [deleted] Posted 16 years ago
Good points made all round.

I'll emphasise number 5 of your comments above. I was quite surprised at a previous discussion people saying they only vote for those who vote for them. If we vote for enought people, which in my case varies every week depending on pictures submitted, then we'll have enough variety of comments.

Great suggestions and I'll try and take the lessons in especially my "nuff said."
admin
Still The Oldie Posted 16 years ago Edited by Still The Oldie (admin) 16 years ago
Jiblet: that would work nicely. And nicely subtle plug for your fecundity...

Cheers, funade. But no hair shirts required :)
pricey paper [deleted] Posted 16 years ago
Good suggestion @jibba. Comment on 5 above and any more that you desire.
juj ~ Posted 16 years ago
at the risk of "piling on a k33p3r" - another vote for Jibba's suggestion.
Evergreengirl Posted 16 years ago
As someone new to the group, I read this discussion with much interest. I have so far kind of done what dr. jibba suggested and that has forced me to look at things I'm not especially drawn to as well as those that I instinctively like. That way I have to truly evaluate and defend my reasons for how I vote on something. #4 is a biggy for me - I can take negative criticism, but I'd sure like to know how I could make something better the next time.
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puss_in_boots Posted 16 years ago Edited by puss_in_boots (admin) 16 years ago
I admit that I tend to avoid commenting on photos, nature mostly, beautiful for the subject and technically perfect, but that for me don't add anything personal. If I ff then I feel at best a snob, but that what I would probably do, so I chicken out.
Also I look at previous comments, and I might be influenced by them.
sometimes they make me see things I had not seen. Is that wrong?
If a picture is exceptionally good I don't think it's wrong to add an extra keeper without much comment: the very number of approvals - plus ten apart - is a significant part of the judgement.
On the other hand I try towards the end of the week , time permitting, to go through the pictures that have few comments and comment on them: receiving only a few comments is disappointing, more than getting ff. Rather than fixing rules, like dr jibba suggests, I would like to encourage poeple to do same, leaving the freedom of choice.
Personally I hate compulsory things, so I vote against it.

PS Reading again dr jibba 's post I realize it's only at level of suggestion, which is better of course, and not entirely in contradiction with what I said.
mark_mark Posted 16 years ago
Some time ago, to force myself to comment on a variety of posts, I tried a scheme like the one jibba proposed. It was a lot harder than I expected and seemed to take much more time, and I soon gave it up. I reverted to the easier way of commenting on things I thought I could usefully say something about, plus going for posts with few comments, like PIB suggests. But I think it's time again for me to use a plan like jibba's, while making my critiques as constructive and useful as I can.
DrCamfi Posted 16 years ago
I've tended to try to comment on the photos whose threads are currently last in this week's comment list (on page 3 or whatever), as this means they haven't had a comment for a while, and my comment will put them back onto the first page where they might attract further comments.

This has the advantage of being quite easy to navigate, as you just need to click "back" and then into the next thread up, rather than having to faff around finding the pool again to figure out which photo you're supposed to comment on next (yes I'm easily confused.)

I do occasionally skip the odd photo for which I really can't think of anything to say, I don't like leaving "I'll come back to this" comments, as knowing my current stressed state of mind, I'd probably forget.

I think rather than making it compulsory to comment on the next five or whatever, just encouraging people to go to the end of this week's comment threads and/or look out for photos with fewer votes, could help. Like Puss_in_boots, I like freedom of choice.
Bala K Posted 16 years ago
Simplest solution is to follow what Dr. Jibba suggested sometime back. Vote on 40+ photos a week. I tried voting like that sometime back. I could only do it a few of weeks and never hit the 40 mark. What that did was to get me out of my comfort zone and make me comment on things that I would have normally passed up. Trying to vote on the previous 5 has never worked for me. The blanket approach worked the best.
dappsull Posted 16 years ago
Applied camfi83's algorithm as well. It kind of balances nicely the amount of comments throughout a week with still some freedom of choice. There are submission I am simply not able to judge reasonably, so keep my fingers off.
David Arran Photography Posted 16 years ago
I have to admit that I've been remiss this last week and not commented on any submissions. Work and other issues in my life have conspired against me and eaten up my time. I apologise for this lapse and will try not to let it happen again.

I try, however to "work from the back". I tend to go to the end of the current week's list and start commenting and voting on those images which have the fewest number of existing comments. This brings images to the forefront that may otherwise be overlooked. I don't think I'll ever have the time to study and critique 40 images a week as others have suggested, but I try to get in at least 15.
admin
ferlopez Posted 5 years ago Edited by ferlopez (admin) 5 years ago
Here's a good read for all ... a blast from the past that as you'll find out, remains current. Feel free to share your thoughts and feelings, adding to the conversation.

In a recent private conversation, ski 9 made a simple but (I find) very effective distinction between critique and criticism


The educational nature of spaces like this one transcends the topic that brings us together.

There is much learning on having to give a critique as much as there's much learning on having to receive one. Often times these learning experiences turn out more valuable than the actual fate of the image in question.

Criticizing is easy ... critiquing is hard


The critique is what matters but the way this critique is delivered matters too. An irritating, slapstick, tong-in-the-chick style of commenting may be tolerated and even welcomed as "funny" in certain spaces but we are not one of them.


Please give critiques with kindness and compassion we know you're not trying to offend anyone but a careless approach may be perceived as offensive.


Remove yourself from the critique you're giving, or at least let us know you're trying.


The critique is what matters but the way this critique is received matters too. After all, the goal is to give valuable feedback to the author, not to showcase our personality.


Please receive critiques with kindness and compassion, take what you find of value and let go of the rest ... be forgiving, don't engage ... let it go ... We live in a world that's wonderful in many ways but we're immersed and surrounded by pain and aggression ... believe me ... garbage in ... garbage out.


Remove yourself from the critique you're receiving, look into your own feelings and expectations and see if they're getting in the way. Fear, vulnerability, pride, anxiety are usual emotions that blur our ability to properly understand and learn from the feedback provided.


Is the critique we're reading intended as offensive, or are we perceiving it that way? Or isn't there a bit of both?
Maybe somebody's style is not our favorite but, wouldn't ir serve us better if we could manage our emotions and look for content beyond the tone ... or even language and cultural barriers ???



Click here for a good read on the subject



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



And here is more ...

WEEKLY Voting


- A Primer on Commenting...

- Keepers vs. Freeflights

- What to make of WEEKLY comments

- Undervoting members

- Following Five Strategy

- Following Five Strategy II

- What accounts for comment discrepancy?

- Off the Fence on Fence Sitting

- Critique and voting bias

- Members Photo Revisions

- Camera Phones
ponzü Posted 3 years ago
What a good read... and a blast from the past, as has been noted.

This is interesting:

ferlopez:
Remove yourself from the critique you're giving, or at least let us know you're trying.


My off and on photography guru Brooks Jensen says -- and he may be quoting someone, but with the amount of content he has put out over the years it is nearly impossible to track down any one nugget of wisdom he has shared -- he says that the critique any one photo will receive from any given person depends largely not on the virtues and drawbacks of the photo itself, but on the mindset of the person giving the critique. The factors affecting the critique may include the mood, past experience, taste, predisposition and eloquence of the person just to name a few.

Brooks Jensen does not characterize this as a good or bad thing, or something to avoid when giving critique, only states it as a fact. He then builds on it to give advice to the authors to not be overly influenced by critique.

Maybe what we can ask ourselves is to be mindful of this fact when giving and receiving critique. But is it right (or even possible) to remove oneself when giving the critique?

Being mindful of it, and letting the author and others know that you are, -- that, in my opinion, would be a good thing.
admin
ferlopez Posted 3 years ago
ski 9:
When it comes to art, there is no "right" or "wrong" methodology. Rather, there are only methods.....those that succeed at creating something seen as artistic by those creating and/or viewing it, and those that don't manage that.

Skill and expertise in photographic techniques can be wonderful aids in creating art, but they can also become a hindrance, sacrificing any real artistic expression in the name of correctness. We do one another a disservice if we assume we understand the motivation, reasoning, or skill set behind a work. All we should really do is view and judge the work from our perspective. If we have questions about it....good, ask away. But making assumptions about motivation or skill level.....probably not so good.
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ferlopez Posted 3 years ago
TokyoZenPoetry:
I have made my share of poor critiques in this group, and my apologies for that. Sometimes, in retrospect, I see that aspects of my critiques have even been wrong. In trying to be better about things, here are some aspects of right-speech that I have considered, and which maybe others will find helpful regarding photography critiques:
1. Is it factual? (If it is just my opinion, I might try to buffer my comments with a disclaimer that it is just my opinion or my bias).
2. Is it helpful? (You could be objectively correct about some flaw in a person’s photography, but if your comment is not going to encourage the person to continue taking pictures or if it could cause them to shut down any future participation, maybe better to hold off on the comment.)
3. Is it kind? (Are the comments spoken with good-will, and would the comments make the person feel that you are advocating for them as a photographer?)
4. Is it pleasant? (Would the reader find your comments endearing or would they find them simply bitter sounding? Again, if the person receiving the critique feels that you are advocating for them as a person and as a photographer, then even a very critical suggestion can still be endearing.)
5. Is it timely? (Yes, we have deadlines for posting comments. And, arguably, if someone is submitting to the group, they are requesting some useful criticism. But maybe, if someone is dead-set about taking photos a certain way for awhile, it is not necessary to tell them every week, especially if at this time they are not willing to listen to you. If that is the case, you might be open to the possibility that the future could bring a better time to bring it up).
admin
ferlopez Posted 3 years ago
ski 9:
TokyoZenPoetry:
Words to live, and critique, by ;-) Thanks very much for posting this. I've said this before, but I think it bears repeating....critique is an opinion based judgement, and positioning it as such will go a long way towards gaining its acceptance by those receiving it.
boundless bit [deleted] Posted 3 years ago
So far I have picked 10 photos this week, most keepers, but at least one FF.
I said in another post that I have no training in photography but I do know what I like and don't and that is how I vote. I have noticed that some photos get a lot more attention then others, and that some commenters/ voters seem to hop on a band wagon so to speak.
My first 2 photos were FF ( that is okay, I expect to see a lot of FF's before I see keepers) most of the comments were constructive and helpful, but a few were short, unhelpful, and even mean sounding. ( yes text is hard to tell the emotion the writer intends, but sometimes the lack of words says more then words). I felt others just jumped on the bandwagon with no real feeling, just get my 5 or 10 and be done with it. This week I have 2 in again ,one looks like it will FF out the door, the comments are all most all about technical advice some mistakes I made are the same on other photos ,pointed out by the same commenter , only they got keeper, which confuses me a little because I don't know if then it is my subject or what that the commenter really didn't like. Again, there are comments that are helpful, others that just repeat previous comments, and then at least one that is just shy of mean, and certainly not helpful. Once I saw the first FF I knew more would follow, I was right. My second photo got a Keeper ( thank you ) with comments on what was not exactly right and how to fix it, but it is the only vote that photo has gotten, I kind of expected that as well.
Please don't get me wrong, I like this group and its concept, I am just expressing what I see and feel as a newbie. There is a point to my comments here, I just can't find the correct words to convey it. While reading the discussions,( some like this one started years ago) I read a comment about lazy photographers for putting less then perfect pictures up for voting. Knowing anything I put in this group is going to be less then perfect, I almost moved on from this group, ( some of the more technical comments scared me too) the responses to the lazy, comment gave me hope and I am still here.
I think as an almost new to photography person, I can get a lot of help to improve from this group, but only if the commenters that have been here a while and have perfected their skills into almost if not perfect, remember when critiquing, that sometime it is newbies they are critiquing. Example, "Good photo but your ISO, and F-stop were not set right ( too high to low )." That comment leaves me hanging a little bit. I would like to see, "good photo, but maybe try it with the F-stop, ISO settings at this or that level" Or" what was the natural lighting like when you took this, and then a suggestion on the right settings." One comment I have gotten not just in this group but in other places as well, and I get it often so I do have a problem getting it right, is " Your exposure is too low, too high, too bright too dark." But they don't go one to explain how I might correct it. I even would find, " your settings are all correct, the photo crisp and clear, but the subject isn't interesting, or something.
I hope I gave some insight how a newbie sees this group and how the group as a whole can make a newbie feel.
Joey K
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catwoodfield Posted 3 years ago
Being a beginner and getting critiques is hard. I take it a lot less personally now as my camera group does it and actually I find it helpful. Even here, there are good photographers here and a lot of the time I throw in a photo I am going to use I'm competition and they give me helpful advice, or even all hate it and then that one is not used.

See if your area has a camera group, they are very helpful. I took a few classes online, ( still do) and at the Delaware Art Museum. Check those places in your area. If you are in the states where I believe you are given the bald eagles, most likely east coast there are good resources online and locally. I have even taken classes with some places on the west coast online.
I do not do as much post-processing as others do here but that is just me, so because we can change the photo so much with programs, that is why they are asking about what the lighting conditions are on the day it was taken to see what your settings were and how they can make suggestions. Everyone shoots differently, the woman who I took classes from in DE at the Art Museum was a professional photographer for the National Museums in DC, she shot to shutter speed, so that is what I am comfortable with. I do use manual and Aperture as well. Flowers and birds are tough, I do not think could ever do them like Teddy A does on this page and the work Craig does is amazing. I took a class in architecture with that same instructor and found I really enjoyed it. Some composition classes will help. Remember it is all subjective too. I take photo classes at Longwood Gardens and one of the floral photo instructors pointed out we all placed everything in the middle, sometimes it just takes someone pointing that out to realize it.

from your post: One comment I have gotten not just in this group but in other places as well, and I get it often so I do have a problem getting it right, is " Your exposure is too low, too high, too bright too dark." But they don't go one to explain how I might correct it.

Use your histogram settings and your exposure in camera settings. I always take a test shot now before I start to check the histogram to make sure it is good and check the test shot for any over or under e exposure, I find getting the histogram right I do not get areas that are too dark and a blown out sky. I have to change it, also if you can meter in the camera do that. I often pick a spot where the sly and maybe the treeline meet, and then adjust. If you do the sky you will lose your details in your trees, but if you meter somewhere in between often you will get everything Sometimes shooting on a sunny day at noon there's no help for that but you can work it. Look up on youtube some tutorials for your specific camera to how to use those settings in your camera.

I tend to critique from the storytelling and emotional impact of the photo. I do offer some advice in my limited tech knowledge way. This group makes me aware of the subtle things. When we compete the judges have a limited time with photos and are not allowed to view them closer than 3 feet away so some of the technical things matter less and it is about the composition, and higher level tech stuff but the storytelling and use of colors and interest.
admin
ferlopez Posted 3 years ago
VISUAL RETHORIC: How To Analyze Images

www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqgAfu9IdyM

I strongly recommend this short presentation providing guidance and techniques that help read and understand an image. This is basically the process I use personally when studying your submissions but most important, when composing my own images.

The method works both ways:

a- Decoding a photograph or painting in front of us, so we can understand it. Hopefully find the one or many possible narratives and the author's intention

b- Decoding the scene in front of us, which we intend to photograph. Deciding on the different elements and angle of view on the composition, what needs to be included or excluded, how to better capture the light or manipulate the light towards a desired effect.
Teddy Alfrey Posted 3 years ago
ferlopez:

The "Quadrant System," as described in your video and most Art Appreciation 101 classes, is definitely useful no matter how advanced someone thinks they are!
When trying to understand a painting/photograph that seems confusing (as in the example in the video) or if someone is "stuck" trying to figure it out, try using "The Quadrant System."

In the "The Raft of the Medusa," there is an interesting use of space with the hopeful people waving for rescue (in the upper right) and the people slowly dying and slipping into the sea (in the bottom and lower left). Then there's the oncoming wave/storm from the upper left. Once you understand the history of this real incident, cannibalism was involved, which shines yet another light on this painting.

I'm a fan of fine art and the history of art. I often feel frustrated at my perception of compositional errors in old paintings, especially when elements bleed out of frame. Of course, some of these paintings have been trimmed from their original form, but not always. Anyways, I frequently fret about the reasons for this kind of compositional "tool." BTW- image used in the video cuts off the top part of the painting so that the waving cloth doesn't touch the frame.

Good stuff!!
admin
Still The Oldie Posted 3 years ago
So great to re-visit this thread and to notice some welcome recency in it!
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ski 9 Posted 3 years ago
Still The Oldie: Pull a chair up to the fire, pour yourself a sherry or port, relax and enjoy! Wonderful to see you back!
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Stitch Posted 3 years ago
Still The Oldie: Hello Martyn, welcome back. Hope to see your great pictures again : D
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ferlopez Posted 2 years ago
When was the last time you read this thread? maybe this is a good time to revisit it ...
admin
ski 9 Posted 8 months ago Edited by ski 9 (admin) 8 months ago
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Stuart.67 Posted 6 months ago
Having just returned to this group after not participating for a few years, I have found some comments frustrating to say the least. This is not because I'm too delicate to take some critique, but because the comments just appear to be dismissive with no real substance or advice.

About to retaliate and defend my images, I instead took a look around and found this thread and re-read it, and I remembered reading much of it on first joining. It reminded me to take the comments I can use to improve and to ignore those that I don't find so helpful, it's not personal just a different view.

I think it has also reminded me to try and make my own comments helpful if at all possible.

A good read, and very much worth re-reading!
admin
ski 9 Posted 6 months ago
"When you go to a buffet, you take what you want and leave everything that doesn’t appeal to you." Welcome back to the Weekly Group buffet ;-)
Andrius Kirkliauskas Posted 6 months ago Edited by Andrius Kirkliauskas (member) 6 months ago
I discovered this group on Flickr with great pleasure. At first I was a little put off by the fact that the rules stipulated mandatory criticism and opinions on photos for other participants. I returned to Flickr precisely because I was tired of other people's opinions and criticism on Russian social networks. Now in Russia and not only there - with the help of social networks, photography has become too widespread. Suddenly everyone began to consider themselves the best photographers in the world and to impose their opinion on everyone - what is good and what is bad, often without even delving into what the author is trying to show. I am not saying that there are fewer good photographers, it is just that there are more bad photos and people learn from them and try to do the same, shamelessly endlessly encouraging each other in this. One has only to try to try something differently and you will encounter a lot of disrespectful criticism. With this mood, I suspended my participation in social networks, remembered my password for Flickr and quietly, without bothering anyone, began to slowly post my photos. Frankly speaking, I really don't like to criticize other people's photos because I don't consider myself a professional, much less a professional critic. Having come into the world of photography, I still haven't read a single article to the end and haven't taken any photography courses. All I've learned is from the words of my photography friends, all I've learned is through my own trials and errors. And since I can't stand still and constantly experiment and give in to my mood, I know that many of my works will get FREE FLIGHT and will be removed from this group's feed. But here's what's very useful in this group - There is no evil criticism here. This is important for people who are learning and experimenting. And also - here it is not so scary to criticize other people's work and even if your criticism is wrong (but here it is important to understand that by mistakenly criticizing other people's work you must first of all learn not to repeat such mistakes in yourself) After reading the criticism of other commentators, you will understand your misconceptions and apply this experience to self-criticism of your work.
In general, I found a very interesting group on Flickr for myself and will gladly continue to participate in it, although I will often shock the participants with my imagination and experiments. After all, sometimes you want your photo to be different and challenge other works and not repeat them) criticism in this case is necessary. Otherwise, you will not understand how the viewer should treat it
John-Pa Posted 6 months ago Edited by John-Pa (member) 6 months ago
Thank you for your perspective. A saying that I use is;
“If everybody likes it, it ain’t art”.

As you say, not everyone will appreciate everything. It is the nature of social-media is to promote conformity, but I think that consensus is boring.
Andrius Kirkliauskas Posted 6 months ago
John-Pa:

Yes. I completely agree with you.
Teddy Alfrey Posted 6 months ago
While I agree in spirit with "If everybody likes it, ain't art," I think some people lean toward the inverse, "If everybody hates it, it's art." It's important to appreciate very general witicisms like this, but it's important for all of us to keep in mind that every one of us, here at the WEEKLY, is an artist, and that calling is one of the most noble things about humanity! Maybe, we aren't that good at our art, but we are still freaking artists!


Posting photos and subjecting them for critical review can be tedious sometimes. I've been on quite a few of them! I think (so far) that the WEEKLY is the closest that I've come to being what a group like this ought to be! Of course, it's not perfect, but there are a lot worse.
I technically am still a member of the Ice Box where people give cools and uncools. The members there are a little more... aggressive, but not in a mean-spirited kind of way. I finally gave up on Facebook review groups because of the trolls. I need to start participating in the Ice Box again. There aren't that many members who participate I find them all very likable and fun. Not that the WEEKLY folks aren't likeable and fun, though!

The main thing is to put your stuff out there! If you aren't going to do it online, join a photography club, attend their meetings, and participate in specific focus groups. I lead a Photographic Critique group and a History of Photography group with the Bloomington Photography Club. Lately, we've been doing more Zoom meetings, but those are still more lively, timely, and responsive than the episodic messages that we do here. NOT that our messages are a bad thing, it's the nature of the beast to be a little disjointed with communicating like this.

One thing I like about being in the club is that when you go to one of their functions, EVERYBODY is talking about photography! If you go to a normal party, somebody might start up a conversation about photography, but it will only take about three minutes before somebody will ask "How about those Bears?" (on here in Bloomington, IN "How about those Hoosiers?")

I say, who gives a hoot if people say bad things about your photos? However, there might be a slight chance that what they say has a nugget of truth, somewhere in that onslaught of negativity that only wants to make you think you are dumb!

I will say, Andrius, after examining your photostream, you don't have much to worry about!






John-Pa:
Andrius Kirkliauskas:
Andrius Kirkliauskas Posted 6 months ago
Thank you. I'm not worried yet, until my "demons" jump out of me ))) I have until the end of next week to wait. And I would gladly dive into something like that, but I'm still afraid of my "demons". Maybe in vain. But let's see what people say) I'm expecting the exact opposite emotions, misunderstanding and denial.
Teddy Alfrey.
Ldcha Posted 4 months ago Edited by Ldcha (member) 4 months ago
not sure I understand where I should put my comment and the word keeper... someone can help me?
Andrius Kirkliauskas Posted 4 months ago
Ldcha:

You need to open the photo, find a link to the discussion in the comments under this photo, follow this link and you will see a discussion of this photo where you can leave your comment.